Is it CCP's responsibility to police out of game interaction between their players where no law has been broken?

If so, where does that responsibility end? Should they ban a player when his wife complains about him playing EVE instead of doing the chores?

If I hook up with another EVE player who happens to be from say Japan, should CCP have the right and duty to ban me if the GM involved disapproves of inter-racial relationships? What about homosexual relationships?

What if I encourage another player to log in to fleet and miss church on sunday?

Where exactly does CCP's "responsibility" end?

Article 68 (of the Constitution of Iceland)

No one may be subjected to torture or any other inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

Now imagine Erotica pulling this sort of bullsh*t on a 12 year old kid that is about as emotionally stable as a house made of sand and who may already be dealing with enough bullying in their real lives.

One point for those who have said he could of just left.

E1 is using something a kin to the Prior Investment Trap. This is something used by many conman / woman in real life to trick all kinds of people out of their money.

Perhaps. But if I were "in charge" I know exactly what I would do in this case.


I would not let someone like Erotica 1 use MY copyright and construct of my intellectual property (my game) as a vehicle for "real life of meta jollies and greifing".

On other and more understandable words, while it would not be against the rules to scam people in game, and it was not against the rules to do what was done already, I would not allow players who take their scamming or activities out of game to base it on the knowledge or content of my property.

If CCP set a precedent that they'll ban someone who has broken no game rule or national law, but merely because some people think he's an "obvious piece of filth" then how do they deal with requests to ban gays? Interracial relationships? Ukranians? People who criticise the Scientologists?

"Er yucky" simply isn't a good enough reason.

So, if there is someone I don't like at work - and I bring in a pie for my coworkers, of which is a flavor that he doesn't enjoy, and CCP gets wind of it - I should be banned? ...Oh it's for another EvE player? What if I'm married to an EvE player... you think there is ever a married couple that hasn't toyed emotionally with eachother playfully that would violate this rule?

You ganked me, no sex for you tonight!

*BANNED*

I don't agree with everything Ripard writes or with every solution he proposes. But he has a generally good point in this current posting theme, EVE has a toxic brand identity. That's not a good thing, no matter how you spin it.

Strip Search Phone Call Scam

The guy called into a McDonald's posing as a police officer, he never once made contact with the other individuals involved. He was injustly incarcerated of his crimes! The people involved at this McDonald's location should have known better! They all consented multiple times to what Mr. Stewart was telling them to do over the phone! Any of the individuals involved could have easily left or hung up the phone but they chose to stay/continue to particpate. /S

Whether you want to believe it or not, psychological abuse alone is still a very serious issue.

I see this as using a game as the means to an end. Not playing a game and taking advantage of the mechanics.

Pulling people outside of the game for their twisted amusement is the modus operandi of pedophiles and psychopaths.

CCP could wash their hands of this legally, but once something bad happens out-of-game things will get really bad for them really fast. The press is not your friend, CCP. Nip this in the bud.

Mittanigate was a worldwide sensation (in the gaming press) and what he did was nothing compared to what Erotica1 has going on. You are in for a world of hurt if you don't get a handle on this.

Mr Epeen

metaphoricly spoken :)

I'd puke in Erotica's face if I'd meet him in rl (hope I never will), however, EVE Online gives him the platform for his pathetic intentions.

OUTSIDE OF THE GAME

It would be nice if CCP could state whether it is acceptable to them for someone to abuse or bully another player ingame because the other player has a speech impediment. Then we can go back to playing EVE.

You lucky bastard, you have a girlfriend, all I have is a wife and her sister is fugly.

Erotica1 is, with malice, willful forethought and intent, extorting/blackmailing victims OUTSIDE OF THE GAME by holding their INGAME items ransom

I've developed an opinion that all the perps should be identified at hardware and geological location. Ban all their hardware and of course their accounts. I'd say a crime has been committed so forward the soundbites to the players local authorities and if there is anything going on in the local playgrounds or family disputes they know right where to go. Anything less is irresponsible as a priest or doctor not stopping personal harm that they have heard about. CCP does not and cannot guarantee privacy for criminal acts.

We can't let this knowingly go on, certainly to condone it is to assist in later abuses. To even have heard this psychological dehumanization going on outside of a war theater, and even within, has made me less human.

And you believe this to be a real world crime, so I ask again, when did the cops care about my space stuff? Can I call them when I lose my next ship?

False. Teamspeak.

And if it is happening in EveVoice, then it is all the more reason for CCP to immediately take action in order to avoid possible legal repercussions to itself, and to protect its clients feom this kind of illegal activity by persons utilising their service for those purposes.

The epic lolz will happen when it does blow up....only more in the "Look at how goofy EVE players are singing and breaking stuff for a game!", and not "OMG look at this cyberbullying!"

It doesnt matter if its space stuff, pictures of you with your adultress, money, a fat pig or your childrens lives.

The crime is in the act of extortion/blackmail, not in what is being held by the perpetrator as a means to the act.

Let's get more theoretical then....


Suppose pedos were using Eve Online as a means of contacting underage people for their sick plans. Would that make it OK because it's OUTSIDE OF THE GAME ?

Erotica1s ingame activities are fine.

It is his out of game activities which are in my view absolutely illegal.

Play that recording to any judge or jury, and explain the context to them, and they will imo certainly find in favor of the plaintiff.

This is about players standing against the vitriolic and toxic nature of certain groups in eve who strive to ensure hate and spite are promoted so they get their 'kicks.'

This is not a call for a themepark. This is a call to return civility to the game.

Bottom line, CCP either does something about this or not. It's pedantry to talk about legality and court processes.

If it's a black eye, I am pretty sure CCP will do something about it. They have enough stuff written into their EULA, they can arbitrarily axe someone from the game any time they please. They don't need to provide an explanation or a rationale for it. They can simply do it.

If this recording upset you and they don't, then all you have is getting mad.

If this recording doesn't upset you and they do something, all you have is getting mad.

I'm Catholic, ...

Are you trying to claim there was no harassment of this guy going on for 2 hours?

People who participate in cons are also voluntarily going along with the conman.

Doesn't make it not a con.

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

Wow...37 pages and counting.




This would be a good spot for a TLDR of the thread so far, anyone?

Why do you keep trying to guess what I think? I never said a word about scamming or banning it.

The victim is not motivated by greed at this point, he is motivated by the extortion/blackmail promise that they will return his assets to him if he meets their extortion/blackmail demands.

After listing to the rather lengthy recording i feel somewhat ashamed to be playing the same game as these people.

while i dont have any real issue with the scamming aspect here as it is considered an acceptable and viable method to play.

however this went much much further this can only be seen as cyber-bullying http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberbullying which in the UK at least is a criminal offence and i believe it is also a crime in the US and most of if not all of Europe.

while the "incident" happened outside of eve it could be argued that it isn't ccp's responsibility to take action this is somewhat true, however the fact a "potential" crime as been committed and the initial point of contact for the two parties was eve-online and only occurred because of ccp's policy where it comes to scamming as acceptable game play, i would argue that ccp needs to take some form of action.

personally i would advice the victim to make a official complaint to his/her local police.

We as the gaming community as a whole need to stand up and say that this kind of abuse is not acceptable in our game or indeed any other game.

Meh, I think the moment that the conversation turned from the removal of his assets and to his personal dignity it crossed the line for me.

Scamming is part of the game you say? Yes, humiliation and public ridicule however are not.

Again, the same as a con. Doesn't make it not a con. This is not a complicated idea to grasp friend.


Maybe you need less indicating and following, and better reading comprehension. When you start to imagine things never said, you're losing the plot.


"I will assert nonsense and shift the burden on to you."

Ok.

So Erotica1 offered in game items for out of game services. You sing for me and you will get all of these items back. That is RMT, which CCP dislikes with a passion.

Just because something happens outside of CCPs servers doesn't mean that they should ignore it.

A certain german dictator that carebears always seem to fall back on as a comparison and who is censored on Eve-o has yet to make an appearance.

He did state he would not kick, he just stated he would laugh. You are allowed to laugh, you're even encouraged to laugh irl.

Bad reading is however frowned upon, both in real life as on the internet.

Well, having someone spaz out on teamspeak can be pretty funny, this is not the first of such recordings either, its absolutely nothing new, and usually stuff like this is laughed at.

A better question is, if this guy was in such stress over this teamspeak session, why didnt he just leave? I mean, if someone was annoying me on teamspeak, Id just leave, hell, you can even just mute/ignore them.

The audio recording is horrible. I challenge anyone who finds this behavior acceptable to play the recording to your mom, or your wife, and then proudly say to that person, "I support this behavior."

CCP has provided Erotica1 with a soapbox, that soapbox needs to be removed. I leave the 'how' to CCP.

personally, i have a brummie accent.

The guy literally never undocks. There is nothing TO do about it; the game prevents it.

All this could not have happened without eve assets so its not entirely out of game. I think ccp could make a case for this if they want to take action.

This entire thread is arguing semantics and bad analogies and should be nuked.

Why, scared for your hero?

Hes a tough guy, he can take it. he can sure as hell dish it on his victims, cant he?

Did anyone count how many times that the "victim" left the bonus room... only to return?






Oh wait.... no one cares. Burn the witches!

For sure, making the victim look bad is a classic from abusive people.
You New Order guys are definitely building a strong defense for your Erotica 1 fellow. You make me sick.

Its irrelevant. Mail him and ask yourself if you wish for an answer to that question.

None of what happened in the TS "Bonus Room" is any of CCPs concern or business.

What is of concern to CCP and the community at large, is Erotica1s activities of actively predating on the community for victims with ingame scams that he extends to OUTSIDE THE GAME.

You cant do that. Its against the EULA.

Scams are fine within the game, it is NOT ok to scam people OUTSIDE the game.

The only function of the recording in this issue, is it evidences that he is indeed doing so.
The proof is there.

And then did what? Made him read a Wikipedia page?

Jester's post was written after the Massively post. He's trying to coat tail on Erotica 1.

There is also a section in the EULA which deals with criminal acts. Recording and publishing information that should be private, as in private conversations is defamation, is a breach of privacy. You cannot record a private conversation and publish that conversation on the EvE forums without breaking the law. The person must be told they are being recorded and the person must give consent to that recording being published.

Erotica1 clearly targeted the guy and kept him coming back by constantly promising to give him his stuff back. He kept the guy online and baited him into the actions he took with the purpose of eliciting the frustrated and over the top rant. It was intentional.

He also violated wiretap statutes in nearly every state by recording the guy without consent. In many US states that is felony by the way. And engaging in criminal activity within the game is a bannable offense.

Some of the dialogue is hilarious. I draw the line at the picture taking, to be honest.

We will see. I am betting teamspeak wont like to be in any way associated with words like, oh i dont know,

1) cyber-bullying
2) online predators
3) vulnerable victim
4) abuse

I wonder...

How would Pillow Fights Online transfer into an Icelandic rap song?

Hmmmm......

The hole getting people on comms to record what is going to happens is creepy as ****!, scams are scams but this i something different... i can understand someone who likes to steal and cheat, but this is more about the personal aspect then the isk, and that is what makes is so god damn creepy.

Kaarous, this is the thread of a lifetime man.

Suicide requests, actual truths, Pillow Fights Online....

Torture, that one set of Europeans during WW II, cats dying by circular saws....

Hell, even if I get banned tomorrow, it was fun and a good run.

I know others feel the same way.

Guess HTFU actually meant, "Harden up, but not too much, or we will have to martyr you without looking at facts."

vOv

*edit, fixed quote.

Im putting money on Salvos being Sohkars "wife" actually.

She said she was something like that. Id listen to the recordings again to find out, but the sheeple would make me feel bad and burn me along side Ero like Guy of Auvergne if I laughed at any of it while listening to her responses.

You should be the first against the wall, for sharing that abomination of cancer.
YOU THINK THIS IS A GAME?

I got a lot of likes from this thread.

Felonies, lol.

You realize this thread is gonna be locked in buried within 48 hours and nothing will come of any of this?

And even if you tried... you don't have a case, simply put.

:)

Sohkar you poor abused racist bro, I feel you!!!
Ban Erotica 1 ban him so hard his mother feels it in her gut!!!!

and death to the 1-X robots!!!!

Calm and civil? CALM AND CIVIL!?!?!

Surely these be the hallmarks of witchcraft! Prepare the stake! BURN THE WITCH!

Oh, the death threats and racist slurs guy..naw..hes cool..let him go.

Nice page 100 snipe bro.

This 137 page thread and multiple news articles disagree.

288 = statistical significance (actually, >32 makes for a statistically significant sample size). So, this thread is probably very representative of how the community feels - at least those that KNOW about the issue. And, at the risk of insulting your intelligence (not my intent), pls do bear in mind that most EVE players are probably not active on the forums, and probably only a small number of those that are have seen or are following this thread.

Technically, the sample size in this thread is statistically significant and so therefore CAN be taken as being indicative of how the community at large feels, UNLESS you have reason to believe that the mix of people on the forums is unrepresentative of the feelings/moral compass of the community at large, in which case you could argue that the thread is suffering from selection bias. I suspect that's a weak argument, though.

But the goons did it differently they actually used the game mechanics in the game.

Hulkageddon, Burn Jita, Ice interdictions, corp recruitment scams, suicide ganks, corporate espionage, thats all in the EVE universe, what happened in that recording in certain points was not in keeping with being "in the universe" or even the game. They are 2 different scenarios, the only real out of game faux pas they got pulled for was mittani gate in 2012 which got rinsed in public exactly the same way as this. So i;d say comparing this to the GSF in game actions is not even in the same ballpark.

Its OK buddy. We understand.

But do not worry, a properly worded crime tip to the FBI and other agencies does not go unnoticed.

It might take 6-8 months for them, but they will come.

And with words like ' online predators ' ' luring ' 'vulnerable victims ' 'possibly underage ' 'recorded ' 'tortured and abused ' ' published on the internet '

THEY WILL COME.


And you...you just visualize a cage in a zoo with a monkey in it. Puts things in perspective doesnt it.

You're right. Giving some poor sap a chance to save his tackeld ship by joining you and singing I'm A Little Teapot is nothing new.

And nothing I take issue with.

Inviting same sap onto your TS and goading them for two hours about it until they snap? Yeah, I'll take issue with that.

Dragging people onto an external server, humiliating them for 2 hours and then publishing it for lols is okay? Really?.

CCP can only act within their control. As their game and their community are essential for this event to have occurred it is IMO up to them to use what control they have to make it known that this level of greifing/emergent gameplay is considered unacceptable.

Either that or they should come out and say "Yay Erotica! Wooooooo! Way to go, that was awesome!" At least we'd know where we stand.

For me, this is about how CCP need to codify that there is a standard of conduct (there is one in the EULA/TOS) and that, should external factors beyond their control be used to breach that conduct, then sanctions within their control (bans, reversals etc) can and will be administered.

Riptard's one sided twisted article. http://evenews24.com/2014/03/25/jesters-trek-the-bonus-round/

My signature is the truth.